A couple nights ago I was eating dinnerwith Tiff, a junior at Chiang Mai University and a member of Grace Fellowship, when she received a phone call from her sister. After hanging up, Tiff excitedly told me about how her sister just had an experience with God. (For some more background info, Tiff accepted Christ within the last half year and has told me her sister was not very interested in becoming Christian.) Tiff has a lot of passion to know God even as a new believer and so I rejoiced with her at this news. I then asked her what this experience was and she told me the following: Her parents had just bought a new motorcycle for her sister. Her sister had gone to the mall and realized she lost her keys. So she prayed really hard to God and when she arrived at her motorcycle her key was in the basket.
I don't know what to think in these situations. I read or heard somewhere that Westerners like to have these categorical thought or belief systems and how if anything doesn't fit they like to just discard the evidence. I know that with God all things are possible and that He can help even with lost keys. But I wonder to what frequency does He do these things? How glorified is He in these things? I mean if this experience leads her to be more interested about Christ and eventually call upon Him as Lord and Savior, then I say "Praise God!" But whether she comes to saving faith or not, my biggest fear is that people would see God as some sort of insurance in times of need. I believe God is not glorified when the only time we seek Him is during the bad and troubled times. God wants to be worshiped and sought during times of joy and times when things go well. The worst degree of this kind of Christianity would be the prosperity gospel which teaches that God will help you get a better job, have better health, and be rich if you just pray to Him and have faith.
But I don't want to be some kind of spiritual buzz kill and be like, "Hey praise God, I'm glad to hear that He answered your sister's prayers. But remember Philippians 1:29, 'For it has been granted to you for that for the sake of Christ you should not only believe in him but also suffer for his sake.' We should learn to be absolutely content and happy in God even if God wanted us to lose a motorcycle. God has promised we will suffer as Christians. But remember, God is most glorified when we are most satisfied in Him, not his gifts or things he does for us."
I agree with John Piper that when Christians see God as some kind of divine vending-machine, they are led to believe that God would not let "bad" things happen to them. And when these bad things do happen, they turn away from God because they never loved him, only the nice circumstances they attributed to God. And I agree with John Piper that a Christian who truly values Christ would worship him in all circumstances, whether rich or poor, whether things go well or go wrong, and that God is most glorified when we are most satisfied in Him.
But to someone who has not seen the value and worth of Christ yet? This sounds like utter foolishness. But who says God can't work in the simple things like lost keys? And if God was really working through that, why can't I be fully happy for Tiff's sister? Why do I have to think about all these ultimate reasons and ultimate purposes for God or prayer? Am I just making a big deal out of nothing and not trusting God's wisdom in these issues by trying to bring my theology into every little issue?
Maybe sometimes God works in people's lives, like He did in Apostle Paul's life leading Paul to give up all things and count all things as loss for the sake of knowing Christ. (But then again he had a lifetime full of hardcore religiosity before he found the grace of God through Christ). And maybe sometimes God works slowly and steadily, like He did in my life, as God worked over years and countless stupid mistakes to help me give up more and more of my life to Him. But in my case, I had good teaching and good books to guide me in valuing God above all things and not using Him as a divine vending-machine.
So readers, I'd like to hear your thoughts. When is the right time to teach about the deeper things of Christianity? Since it's just one incident, I don't need to get all worried about some prosperity gospel or vending-machine God gospel seeping into the Thai churches right? (exaggeration) Should we as Christians let people know that God isn't all about just making our lives happy and neat before they become Christians? Or should we let them hold some slightly incorrect or incomplete views and have their experiences with God before these things are taught? Or should I just not hold such a strong-Piper theology? hahaha.
I just really want everyone to see and understand God as correctly as possible. Right thinking produces right action.
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ReplyDeleteoh i watched a youtube clip before of john piper speaking about the prosperity gospel.. but anyway.
i dont think it's wrong that you would start thinking/worrying about thinking of God as a "vending-machine" God because of this incident. but at the same time, maybe it's taking it too far if you talk to her about suffering with Christ because of what she said about the keys? I dont know if i'm making sense.
We discussed in one of my classes today that even the littlest things, like having a good day or having a good convo with a friend, etc. are all ultimately from God, and He deserves our praise. So if I were you.. i think i would just rejoice with Tiff and her sister (we're supposed to rejoice with those who rejoice and mourn with those who mourn, right?) because they are new Christians and havent really experienced God fully yet, right? (Not saying anyone can actually FULLY experience God cus there's always more to God) but when troubles do come and they feel down, you can remind them of the times they rejoiced, and tell them about prosperity gospel?
^does that equal to saying that we should "let them hold slightly incorrect or incomplete views"? Cus that's not what I mean.. I dont know. AH! K discussion time. haha. -_-
K. I dont even know if I answered your question. But here you go haha.
p.s. yay, fixed blog sounds better :]
ahaha im not saying i'd talk to her about it, especially this being an isolated incident. but the main point is that i just feel slightly uncomfortable saying yay God answered your prayer for your lost key. but maybe i just don't know how to thank God for the little things. Or maybe I think we're only supposed to pray to God for like eternal things like people's salvation. Cuz I've heard of some people saying that you should pray about getting taller if you're short. But how would that glorify God? that you're taller and you feel good about yourself now? I guess I just wonder how things glorify God in the end. I don't know.
ReplyDeleteyeah maybe this is more about thanking God for the little things. I dont know.. Well prayer is our convo with God, so we should be thanking him even for the littlest things right? Cus everything IS from him? But that's true, praying that I would get taller would not bring glory to God. (man, I think I've prayed that before :( :( loll) But that is a whole different topic from thanking God even for everyday incidents. but now im going onto new topics, and going off tangent from your blog huh. ok. I don't know either. ahah T_T
ReplyDeleteMy brother... I enjoyed your post (I always do). I am also encouraged by your singleness in seeking the Lord Himself, and not merely something from His hand, as you mentioned in an earlier post Hebrews 12:2.
ReplyDeleteI can't say I have the answer to your question, but I have had a few experiences in the Lord that might apply.
It's always a dear thing to be around new ones in the Lord, and to be able to shepherd them and enjoy the Lord with them. One thing I've realized in this is that the Christian life isn't merely a life of acquiring teachings, but it really is a life, a matter of life. We are born of God at our conversion, receiving God's life (John 1:10, 3:6), and as we live this life, we continue to grow in this life, being nourished in the Word (1 Pet. 2:2), and eventually become full-grown in Christ (Heb. 5:14, Eph. 4:13). This life is not hard to understand, for it is reflected by our physical human life: we are born, we grow by eating, we receive teachings and pass through many experiences on the way. The more we grow, the more lessons we learn, the more help we are able to receive, and the more we mature in life.
Actually this is exactly the illustration I wanted to use. When you have a baby, one thing the baby likes is to play with toys. Why is that? It's simply due to the measure of the baby's life. A silly adolescent might say to the child, "Put that down... don't you know it's useless to play with toys?", and take the toy away from the child. As a result, he'd probably start crying. Eventually, instead of learning a lesson, he'd likely soon be looking for another toy to play with. What would the teen have accomplished?
Any teen with sense would realize that the child can't be taught not to play with toys; rather, as he grows older, he'll slowly grow out of his interest in them. What does the teen do instead? Instead of taking away the toy, he gives the baby a bottle.
This helped me a lot in being with new believers on campus. I've taken away a lot of toys in my day, and a lot of babies have been upset with me (this may or may not be your case). What I've learned is that as long as a believer isn't ready to receive a certain lesson related to God, it won't help to try and teach it to them (S.S. 2:7, 3:5, 8:4); rather, what the person needs is to be fed by the Lord and by His faithful stewards (Matt. 24:45) to be helped to grow in life. In this way, their measure of life will increase, and they will be able to receive the Lord's word for them at the time they need to hear it.
Amen... I hope this was helpful. Grace to you, my brother!!!
Oh man. I was going to say something but the comment from the guy above me was basically what I wanted to say except worded better... -_-;; I really need to practice writing more. I've been getting worse as of late...
ReplyDeletethanks eric! i hope you can be a light to Tiff and her sister!
ReplyDeleteAndrew, that was such a great example. I was really blessed dude. Praise God!
ReplyDeleteEric! My prof talked about this last Tuesday!! I was told by a friend that he has a feeling I'm going to learn something great in class.. maybe this is it?
ReplyDeleteHe was talking about a situation he had with a lady at his church who was a very, very new Christian. She had been seeing God as, like you mentioned, a "vending-machine." When she did not receive the things she asked for or expected, she completely lost her balance and turned to my prof (who's also a pastor) in desperation.
Basically, my prof said.. you can't BS your way around the Gospel. It is what it is and our job is to proclaim it, not sugar-coat it. Of course there are times divinely appointed to share the gospel and certain ways to approach it - that's all discernment. But the gospel should not be toyed around with in any way, and nonbelievers should not be led to believe one aspect of the gospel without the other half. The good and the "viewed" as bad part go hand-in-hand. That's the gospel.
So he said that he said what he needed to say - the indescribable joys of following the Lord but the suffering that too often comes our way as well. Then he prayed and let the Holy Spirit work in the woman.
She came to Christ a couple weeks later.
I don't know if that helps, but it was a story that just stuck with me! When I read your blog, it brought me right back to that story.
Hope it helps some & we all miss you so much. I'm praying for you!
oo that is another great answer. thanks shanda!
ReplyDelete